Edward Snowden has rounded on his hosts, attacking the Kremlin’s human rights record and implicating Russia in two of the US government’s latest major security hacks.

爱德华•斯诺登(Edward Snowden)抨击他目前客居的国家，他批评克里姆林宫的人权记录，并暗指俄罗斯与近期两起针对美国政府的重大黑客攻击事件有瓜葛。

In a Lunch with the FT — carried below — he complained Moscow had gone very far, in ways that are completely unnecessary, costly and corrosive to individual and collective rights and added that his greatest loyalty was still to the US.

在与FT共进午餐（见以下采访全文）中，他吐槽莫斯科做得太过，采取了完全没有必要、代价高昂并且损害个人和集体权利的行事方式，并说他依然对美国怀有最大的忠诚。

He described the leak last month of NSA espionage tools, potentially by Russia as an implicit threat to the US government.

在他看来，上个月美国国家安全局(NSA)的间谍工具被泄露一事——可能是俄罗斯所为——是向美国政府发出的含蓄威胁。

Efforts by hackers called the Shadow Brokers to auction off NSA computer code used to break into foreign networks were an attempt to show Washington how vulnerable it was, he added.

他说，这伙叫做影子经纪人的黑客要将美国国家安全局用于入侵外国网络的计算机代码拍卖，其用意是要让华盛顿看看，这些代码有多不堪一击。

Snowden insisted that all dealings with Russian officials were conducted by his lawyer.

斯诺登坚称，所有与俄罗斯官员之间的交涉都是由他的律师出面进行的。

I don’t have a lot of ties to Russia and that’s by design because, as crazy as it sounds, I still plan to leave.

我和俄罗斯并没有很多关联，这是有意的，因为——尽管这听起来很疯狂——我依然计划着要离开。

Edward Snowden is not the easiest lunch date.

要约斯诺登一起吃个午餐不太容易。

The former National Security Agency operative doesn’t fancy talking in a Moscow restaurant so — via an intermediary — we settle on meeting in my hotel and risk the room service.

这位美国国家安全局的前工作人员不想在莫斯科的哪一家餐厅谈话，因此，通过一位中间人，我们决定就在我住的酒店碰面，冒险尝试一下客房服务。

He will present himself at the agreed time.

他自会在约定的时间露面。

That’s all I need to know.

我只需要知道这一点。

In the end he’s 20 minutes late, dressed casually in black jeans and black V-neck, buttoned-up T-shirt carrying a pair of unbranded dark glasses.

结果斯诺登迟到了20分钟。他一身休闲打扮，穿着黑色牛仔裤和一件保守的黑色V领T恤，戴着一副没有品牌logo的墨镜。

He eyes up the small, dimly lit room 203 of the Golden Apple boutique hotel — half an hour’s gentle stroll from the Kremlin — with the look of a man who has spent too much time in such places.

他打量了一番金苹果精品酒店(Golden Apple)——从这里溜达到克里姆林宫需要半小时——狭小昏暗的203号房间，一副在这种地方住过很长时间的样子。

How does it compare with room 1014 of the Mira Hotel in Hong Kong, where in June 2013 — having shared many of the NSA’s most closely guarded secrets with a few handpicked journalists — Snowden spent a week as the most wanted man in the world?

这个房间和香港美丽华酒店(Mira Hotel)1014号房间比起来怎样呢？2013年6月他在那个房间里住了一周，作为世界头号通缉犯——在他与挑选的几名记者分享了美国国家安全局许多最严加保守的秘密之后。

A bit smaller, but not dissimilar, he says.

小一点，但也没多大不同，他说。

The Hong Kong room had a glass bathroom wall here, he adds, pointing to a bland wall featuring an obligatory hotel watercolour.

香港那个房间在这里有一面浴室的玻璃墙，他指着一面普普通通的墙壁说道，墙上挂着一幅在酒店房间里常见的水彩画。

The interior of the Mira hotel room is about to become much better known with the US release next week of Oliver Stone’s biopic about Snowden, which stars Joseph Gordon-Levitt in the whistleblower’s role.

美丽华酒店1014号房间内的布置将随着一部影片的上映而更加为人们所知。奥利弗•斯通(Oliver Stone)执导的斯诺登传记片于9月16日在美国上映，约瑟夫•戈登-莱维特(Joseph Gordon-Levitt)饰演泄密者斯诺登一角。

Much of the tensest, most claustrophobic action is filmed in a reconstruction of room 1014 built inside a hangar-like studio in Munich.

片中最紧张、最具幽闭恐惧气氛的镜头是在慕尼黑一个飞机库般的摄影棚内重建的1014号房间里拍摄的。

During that intense week three years ago, Snowden and two Guardian reporters worked on those first stories disclosing the full capabilities that intelligence agencies can now deploy against populations.

3年前他住在美丽华酒店1014房间的那一周过得相当紧张，因为他的爆料，两名《卫报》(Guardian)记者写出了第一波披露当今情报部门能够使用在民众身上的全部监听能力的报道。

When he revealed himself as the source, he was acclaimed as a hero by some — others recommended the electric chair.

在他披露自己是消息来源后，一些人将他誉为英雄，另外一些人提出应该让他坐电椅。

I had never met him and was entirely reliant on the judgment of our veteran reporter, Ewen MacAskill, who rang to report (in pre-arranged code owing something to Hollywood) that the Guinness is good.

我那时候还没有见过他，我对他的全部认知都来自于我们的资深记者尤恩•麦卡斯基尔(Ewen MacAskill)的判断，他和斯诺登会面后，打电话来汇报——学好莱坞电影使用事先商量好的暗号——吉尼斯很棒（译注：表示斯诺登的消息是真实的）。

I first saw his face about an hour before the rest of the world, when MacAskill filed his video interview to New York.

我第一次看见他的面孔大约比世界上其他人早一个小时——由劳拉•波伊特拉斯(Laura Poitras)拍摄的、麦卡斯基尔和格伦•格林沃尔德(Glenn Greenwald)两位记者采访斯诺登的视频被发送到了纽约。

Like everyone else there I was struck by his stubbled youth and impressed by his thoughtful articulacy.

就像在场所有其他人一样，斯诺登的年轻——他蓄着胡茬——让我震惊，他的思维缜密和能说会道也让我印象深刻。

Today, at 33, there’s a touch less stubble, and the hair is a smidgen longer.

现在，33岁的斯诺登脸上的胡茬少了一点，头发也比那时候长了一点。

He says he moves freely around Moscow, seldom recognised, which is surprising since he has changed little since that first picture of him etched itself on our consciousness.

他说他在莫斯科可以自由地到处走，很少被人认出来，这一点让人惊讶，因为从他的第一张照片给我们留下印象以来，他几乎没什么变化。

Reading the laminated room-service menu card, complete with English translations, he is tempted by the spicy chicken curry with rice and chilli sauce. I go for the risotto with white mushrooms and a vinaigrette salad with herring.

看了客房里配有英文翻译的塑封菜单后，斯诺登选中了辣味咖喱鸡配米饭和辣酱，我选了口蘑烩饭和油醋汁鲱鱼沙拉。

Snowden — skinny thin — decides he can’t resist the crab cakes, too.

斯诺登——他非常瘦——觉得蟹饼也让人无法抗拒。

We telephone the order for the food, with mineral water.

我们打电话点了餐，还要了矿泉水。

He has been unwillingly marooned in Moscow since 2013 when — the subject of a giant manhunt — he was forced to leave Hong Kong.

自2013年遭到大规模搜捕、无奈离开香港以来，他一直不情愿地被困在莫斯科。

How’s his Russian coming on? He confirms it’s up to ordering in a restaurant, but is reluctant to elaborate.

现在他的俄语怎么样？斯诺登表示他能在餐厅里用俄语点餐，但他不愿意细谈这个话题。

All my work’s in English. Everybody I talk to I speak to in English, he says. I sleep in Russia but I live all around the world.

我在工作中都用英语，我和每个人交谈都用英语说话，他说，我睡在俄罗斯，但我生活在世界各地。

I don’t have a lot of ties to Russia. That’s by design because, as crazy as it sounds, I still plan to leave.

我和俄罗斯并没有很多关联，这是有意的，因为——这尽管听起来很疯狂——我依然计划着离开。

He lives mainly on Eastern Standard Time and spends most of his waking hours online — but it always has been so.

他的作息基本遵循美国东部标准时间，醒时也多半都在上网，不过我一直这么过的。

He admits he misses the sense of home represented by America, but technology overcomes most of that divide.

他承认自己想念美国代表的家的感觉，但科技基本上克服了这种分离。

For me, I’m a little bit of an outlier to begin with because, remember, I signed up to go work overseas for the CIA and overseas for the NSA.

就我而言，我本来就有点像外派的工作人员，记得不，我曾签约为中央情报局和国家安全局去海外工作。

So it’s really not that much different from the postings that I had for the US.

所以，这与我曾经为美国驻外工作相比真的没有太大不同。

The only difference is that I’m still posted overseas and I work for the US but they don’t realise it.

唯一不同的是我依然驻外，依然为美国工作，只不过美国人民没认识到罢了。

As anyone who follows him on Twitter knows (he follows just one account: the NSA) he is capable of a very dry wit.

在Twitter上关注了他的人都知道，斯诺登可是个冷幽默高手（他的Twitter只关注了一个账号：美国国家安全局。）

He has seen a version of the Stone movie on one of the director’s trips to Moscow, during which Snowden says he would talk to Stone’s co-writer, Kieran Fitzgerald, about trying to keep the film a little bit closer to being reality.

有一次斯通来莫斯科时，给斯诺登看了他拍的电影，那时他表示愿意和斯通的联合编剧基兰•菲茨杰拉德( Kieran Fitzgerald)谈谈如何让影片更贴近现实一点。

But, he shrugs, I know it’s a drama, not a documentary. How would he score it out of 10? He avoids a rating.

不过，他耸了耸肩：我知道这是戏，不是纪录片。

On the policy questions, which I think are the most important thing for the public understanding, it’s as close to real as you can get in a film.

如果满分十分，他会给几分呢？斯诺登没有打分：在政策问题上——我认为这是公众要知道的最重要的事情——它已经达到了一部电影所能表现的最真实的地步。

He met Gordon-Levitt in Moscow and thought him an amazing guy . . . we had lunch together, talked for several hours just about everything, our personal lives — what we think about, what we care about.

斯诺登在莫斯科见了戈登-莱维特，他认为对方是个了不起的家伙……我们一起吃了午餐，聊了几个小时，什么都聊，包括我们的私人生活，我们的想法，我们在意什么。

At the time I thought it was just a social visit but, after the fact, he told me that he was actually scoping me out, trying to get my mannerisms.

当时我以为这只是一次社交性的拜访，但事后他告诉我，他其实是在揣摩我，研究我的言谈举止。

Having interviewed Gordon-Levitt’s Snowden as part of my own cameo in the film, I can vouch for how well he captures the real thing.

我在影片中的客串戏份是采访戈登-莱维特扮演的斯诺登，我可以打包票地说，他完美地捕捉到了人物真髓。

Snowden was impressed, too: His characterisation of me makes me uncomfortable, with the super-deep gravelly voice, but that’s because you never hear your own voice the way other people do, right?

斯诺登也印象深刻：他扮演的我让我不大自在，他的嗓音太低沉沙哑，不过这是因为人们从来没听过别人耳中自己的声音，对吧？

Was he moved by the film, which in flashback revisits the episodes in his life that led to what he calls his tortured decision to engineer the biggest leak of classified documents in history? There’s always going to be something emotional about seeing something that you did retold as a story by other people.

这部片子对他有触动吗？影片以倒叙手法再现了他的生活经历，正是这些经历导致他作出痛苦决定，从而制造了史上最大的机密文件泄露事件。当你从别人复述的故事中看到自己过往做的事，总会有些动情。

It shows a reflection of how your choices matter to them.

它体现了一种思考，关于你做的选择对他们产生了怎样的影响。

Three years later, seeing what we thought was going to be a five-day story still being reported on [makes me think] that I wasn’t crazy.

3年过去，看到我们当初的想法变成一个5天故事，而且仍有媒体报道，让我觉得自己当初并不是疯了。

There’s a knock on the door — which would have caused a spasm of paranoid anxiety in the Mira in 2013.

外面传来敲门声——这要是在2013年的美丽华酒店，肯定会引起猜疑和焦虑。

Now it’s just room service.

现在只是客房服务罢了。

The floor is so small the waiter balances the tray on the bed and Snowden has to perch his chicken curry on his knee.

房间太小，服务员将托盘搭在床上，斯诺登只得将咖喱鸡米饭放在膝盖上。

The water is missing.

水没送上来。

My vinaigrette salad turns out to be cubed beetroot.

我的沙拉原来是切成丁状的甜菜根。

I avoid the herrings.

我没吃鲱鱼。

Once he nods at the iPhone recording our interview and expands on a point in case someone is listening.

他朝着正在录制我们采访现场的iPhone点了一下头，然后围绕以防有人在听这个话题发了一通议论。

The first time I met him — to see how he was surviving in his new circumstances in spring 2014 — my iPhone had displayed a giant red thermometer, a sign of alarming overheating.

2014年春天我第一次见他，看看他在新环境里过得如何，当时我的iPhone上出现了一个巨大的红色温度计，那是过热预警信号。

Snowden had observed mildly it was because so many different people were trying to listen in.

那时斯诺登温和地说，这是因为有太多不同来路的人企图监听它。